BETWEEN THE LINES Q&A with David Korten

Between the Lines Q&A

A weekly column featuring progressive viewpoints
on national and international issues
under-reported in mainstream media
for release March 12, 2009

Home | Broadcast-Quality MP3s | Archives | Search BTL Archives
About | Broadcast Schedule | | Squeaky Wheel Productions

Replace Wall Street's Phantom Wealth
with Main Street's Real Wealth

RealAudio excerpt (7:33)

MP3 excerpt (7:33)

in-depth MP3 interview (31:05)

Interview with David C. Korten,
author of "Agenda for a New Economy:
From Phantom Wealth to Real Wealth,"
conducted by Scott Harris

bailout

After campaigning hard in his first three weeks in office for an economic stimulus package to address the nation's deepest economic crisis since the Great Depression, President Barack Obama efforts' paid off, but with two very different bills passing the House and Senate. The Senate approved a $838 billion stimulus bill, while only attracting the votes of three Senate Republicans. The House, which passed its own $819 billion stimulus package with no GOP votes, must now work with the Senate to negotiate a unified bill. Obama has urged the restoration of $108 billion in cuts made by the Senate in school construction funds and assistance for cash-strapped states. Both spending bills allocate money for job-creating infrastructure projects, mass transit, increased funding for unemployment benefits, health care and food stamps to assist those hard hit by the economic downturn.

Meanwhile, the newly confirmed Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner, unveiled key elements of the Obama administration's bank bailout plan. The plan includes a review of shaky banks, with strings attached to new government aid; incentives to attract the purchase of $500 billion or more in toxic mortgage-backed securities; the spending of at least $50 billion to prevent future home foreclosures and Federal Reserve stimulation of private sector lending.

Between The Lines' Scott Harris spoke with David C. Korten, founder and president of the People Centered Development Forum, and author of the critically acclaimed books "The Great Turning" and "When Corporations Rule the World." His new book is titled, "Agenda for a New Economy: From Phantom Wealth to Real Wealth." Here, Korten explains why he believes the current U.S. financial crisis has exposed the critical need to redesign the dysfunctional and dangerous architecture of the U.S. economic system.

DAVID KORTEN: Obama's got a great dilemma; he was handed a huge mess, but what we're not getting is any real discussion of how did we get into this? Why are we in it? Is restoring the system to its previous function really an answer given the larger picture that clearly is a failed financial system that was running out of control and getting it back running out of control isn't going to help us. And then the larger frame, which gets almost no attention and connection with the stimulus and bailout packages that our existing economic system has been also failing environmentally and socially. It's been pushing the most wasteful forms of consumption and it is also absolutely designed to increase inequality in a nation and in a world that is increasingly suffering social fragmentation and breakdown because of the extreme gap in wealth between the very rich and the very poor.

We really need to expand the discussion and to begin focusing solutions on really deeper transformational changes in the economic system and the whole underlying idea of what the purpose of our economy is and how we can restructure it, starting of course, with the system of finance, which is the driving system.

BETWEEN THE LINES: David, the essential message I took from your book is that this financial crisis has exposed the critical need to redesign the dysfunctional and dangerous architecture of the U.S. economic system and its institutions. And I wonder if you would address the whole notion that we are now in a once-in-a-generation moment in history, where the underpinnings of this system are exposed like they are -- in tatters and it is a chance to rethink it and rebuild it.

DAVID KORTEN: Absolutely. The timing is everything in addressing these issues. And we are at a moment of readiness because there is just universal outrage at Wall Street, which is the heart of the problem. People are very eager to get some basis of understanding of why things are going wrong, and some sense of hope that they can be fixed, that we need to look way beyond the current solutions.

I've built much of my analysis on the distinction between Wall Street, which is kind of the metaphor for financial institutions that exist simply for their own profit, and the benefit of their managers vs. Main Street, which tends to be comprised of smaller businesses that are locally owned by people that live in a community and have an interest in the health and well-being of the community and its environment. So they're not simply in it for the money. Of course, one of the things that the government officials should be aware of is as they try to restore these banks, is that the banks still got their same managers who are for the most part, whose only real agenda is to maximize their own salaries, their own paychecks. The system no longer is even devoted to maximizing returns to shareholders. It's narrowed its focus even more.

As you step back, Wall Street, the power that it has, is its control over the issuance and the allocation of money in a society in which most everything we do depends on money. So, we're held hostage to its greed and interests and it's time to move beyond that, to recognize that Wall Street is a pathological, criminal syndicate devoted to essentially stealing from the rest of society.

BETWEEN THE LINES: How do we spark a popular discussion and debate on the future of our economic system? As we were talking about before, it seems to be just a once-in-a-generation opportunity to have this debate. In your view, what do we have to do as citizens to move this debate along?

DAVID KORTEN: Well, there are kind of two fronts. One is banding together to rebuild local economies and local communities. The Business Alliance for Local Living Economies, which I serve on the board of, is an organization that is very much at the forefront of that.

The other is just simply expanding the conversation, getting these deeper issues and the alternatives out there into the public discourse. So part of that is through independent media, doing exactly what you're doing with your program, and many other independent news and talk shows are doing through our valuable independent media.

And of course, another reason I wrote this book, "Agenda for a New Economy" is to provide a vehicle around which people can engage that conversation.

Read David C. Korten articles and commentaries online at his website: www.davidkorten.org

Related links:

In-depth interview with David C. Korten, conducted by Scott Harris, Counterpoint, Feb. 9, 2009

Scott Harris is executive producer of Between The Lines which can be heard on more than 45 radio stations and in RealAudio and MP3 on our website at http://www.btlonline.org. This interview excerpt was featured on the award-winning, syndicated weekly radio newsmagazine, Between The Lines for the week ending Feb. 20, 2009. This Between The Lines Q&A was compiled by Anna Manzo and Scott Harris.

To get details on subscribing to the radio program or to publish this column in print or online media, contact us at (203) 268-8446.