BETWEEN THE LINES Q&A with Robert Dreyfuss

Between the Lines Q&A

AIPAC May Be Losing Clout on Capitol Hill

RealAudio

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Interview with Robert Dreyfuss,
journalist and author,
conducted by Scott Harris

aipac

The American Israel Public Affairs Committee, or AIPAC, is one of the most powerful lobby groups in the U.S. today. Since its founding, the committee has had a profound influence on Washington's foreign policy as it relates to Israel and the Middle East. With 100,000 members, an annual budget of $60 million and a staff of 300, AIPAC has very few rivals. Members of Congress are eager to toe the organization's line, knowing that the group is very skilled at influencing where strategic campaign contributions are made in key election races. Thirty-one PACs, with unofficial ties to AIPAC, contributed more than $22 million in the 2008 election cycle.

The controversial 2007 book, titled, "The Israel Lobby and U.S. Foreign Policy," by John Mearsheimer and Stephen Walt, political science professors at the University of Chicago and Harvard, respectively, explored how pro-Israel groups have shaped U.S. foreign policy. The authors contend that AIPAC and other Israel lobby groups have pressured the U.S. to adopt policies that are neither in America's national interest nor Israel's long-term interest.

But in his recent Mother Jones magazine article titled, "Still The Chosen One?" journalist and author Robert Dreyfuss, investigated a possible decline in AIPAC's influence on Capitol Hill. The most important change Dreyfuss points out, is the election of Barack Obama, who came to office with the stated goal of engaging America's foes in the Middle East and to push for a sustainable Israeli-Palestinian peace accord. Between The Lines' Scott Harris spoke with Robert Dreyfuss about the forces that have emerged to challenge AIPAC's power.

ROBERT DREYFUSS:What you're seeing is a problem for AIPAC, which truly has been one of the most powerful lobbies in Washington, certainly more powerful than some of the others that you might think of, like the American Medical Association or the National Rifle Association or AARP, which I guess would be the other big three lobby groups. AIPAC really stands alone and has been very, very important for at least 30 years.

But it's important to point out that they've lost some battles when a president has been bdetermined to make a change in policy. They lost the battle against President Reagan who wanted to sell AWACS aircraft, that is, radar aircraft to Saudi Arabia and that was opposed by AIPAC back in the early 1980s. And then in the late '80s, again against the Republican president, they clashed with President Bush the first and James Baker, the secretary of state, and they lost that battle as well.

Now you might say these were somewhat skirmishes, and what Obama is after is really the big battle, which is to get Israel to withdraw from the occupied territory in the West Bank and to allow the creation of a Palestinian state which the current prime minister of Israel says that he's against. So I think on both Israel and Iran we're kind of heading for something of a showdown either later this year or early next year.

BETWEEN THE LINES:Why is AIPAC so influential on U.S. Middle East policy?

ROBERT DREYFUSS: Part of the reason is that people are afraid to criticize them, because when you do, you're usually branded anti-Semitic. Which is, of course, ridiculous. Many of the critics of Israel's policies in the West Bank and in the occupied territories are Jews themselves. And in fact, three-quarters of American Jews voted for Obama. So he won overwhelming support among American Jews. But AIPAC is considered important and powerful, because it is important and powerful. It has a $60-70 million budget; it's got offices all over the country and an army of lobbyists. And it makes a lot of noise when any issue comes before Congress, and increasingly even before the executive branch, trying to intimidate or bully the members of Congress or members of the administration. And what's happened recently, and this is really too early to say that it's decisive, but a number of other organizations are emerging of pro-Israel groups that are also on the liberal left side of the spectrum. They call themselves pro-peace; groups like J Street, which has established themselves as lobbyists against AIPAC, and for Israel, but for a different vision of the kind of Israel that can have sustainable security and which is not constantly at war with the Palestinians and the rest of the Arab world.

BETWEEN THE LINES:What is the future for these alternative lobby groups relating to Israel like J Street and the Israeli Policy Forum? You think these folks will be gaining more power in Washington, D.C. to influence events at the expense of AIPAC?

ROBERT DREYFUSS:Well, they may gain more power; they may expand; they may get more support. I think right now, they're playing a different role. It isn't so much that they're lobbying to accomplish this or that. They're providing cover for members of Congress who would otherwise be probably supporting the AIPAC view, but who can now say, " ... but what I'm proposing is something that these other pro-Israeli groups are strongly supportive of." And so it gives some breathing room to members of Congress who want to say, "Let's do something different," so that they can't be accused of being anti-Israel. So they're playing a very important role in that regard. And I think as a result of that, they're likely to get more support from liberal American Jews in particular who see their role as something important. And that's exactly who they're appealing to for their financial contributions and donors and so forth.

Investigative journalist Robert Dreyfuss is author of the book, "Devil's Game: How the U.S. Helped Unleash Fundamentalist Islam." Read his article on AIPAC at www.motherjones.com or visit his website at www.robertdreyfuss.com

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Scott Harris is an executive producer of Between The Lines, which can be heard on more than 45 radio stations and in RealAudio and MP3 on our website at http://www.btlonline.org. This interview excerpt was featured on the award-winning, syndicated weekly radio newsmagazine, Between The Lines for the week ending Sept. 18, 2009. This Between The Lines Q&A was compiled by Anna Manzo.

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